English IS phonetic

[Iain]

It is phonetic, it just has complex rules of pronounciation. You can
learn the spelling by thinking of the meaning, prefixes and suffixes
rather than merely the sound. That's the key to those who struggle
with spelling.

Can anybody give me a non-phonetically spelled English word which
isn't obviously foreign? And one cannot just give "English" as an
example: In Scotland the E is pronounced as a southern English person
would say "gEt", my point being that vowels vary the world over and
that all that matters for communication is that they are used in a
consistent manner.
--
Iain

[zbihniew]

Post by Iain
It is phonetic, it just has complex rules of pronounciation. You can
learn the spelling by thinking of the meaning, prefixes and suffixes
rather than merely the sound. That's the key to those who struggle
with spelling.

there are too many rules and you won't be sure which one you are too
apply. you cannot distinct by mere spelling (eg. "read"). there are also
many crazy words like "unanimous" (how would one know that it's spelled
like "united", not like "unwillingly"?).
a propos, where could i find such rules?

Post by Iain
Can anybody give me a non-phonetically spelled English word which
isn't obviously foreign?

two example hereabove
school-eschew - both of them have "sch" and it's pronounced in other way;
and why is "theatre" (or "theater" if you prefer US spelling) pronounced
with a thorn while it contains "the"

Post by Iain
And one cannot just give "English" as an
example: In Scotland the E is pronounced as a southern English person
would say "gEt", my point being that vowels vary the world over and
that all that matters for communication is that they are used in a
consistent manner.

not only vowels, vide "schedule" (Br sh, US sk)
Also, I heard many people whose "s" tend to be "sh" and "ts" to be "tsh".
what way would be consistent? should anyone drop their own spelling for
other's? we would have to choose one pattern. it's almost as absurdal
and unreal as introducing new spelling :D

[Iain]

Post by zbihniew

Post by Iain
It is phonetic, it just has complex rules of pronounciation. You can
learn the spelling by thinking of the meaning, prefixes and suffixes
rather than merely the sound. That's the key to those who struggle
with spelling.

there are too many rules and you won't be sure which one you are too
apply. you cannot distinct by mere spelling (eg. "read"). there are also
many crazy words like "unanimous" (how would one know that it's spelled
like "united", not like "unwillingly"?).
a propos, where could i find such rules?

It is spelled so because the prexif un- implies a common factor
amongst multiple items.

Post by zbihniew

Post by Iain
Can anybody give me a non-phonetically spelled English word which
isn't obviously foreign?

two example hereabove
school-eschew - both of them have "sch" and it's pronounced in other way;
and why is "theatre" (or "theater" if you prefer US spelling) pronounced
with a thorn while it contains "the"

The British spelling "theatre" is something which should DEFINETELY
stay the same. The R after the T is why "Theatrical" makes sense.
And at any rate, "Theatre" is phonetic. Say it how it is pronounced
and you won't sound incorrect, only more careful. It might also sound
a bit Celtic, but correct nonehtless.

Post by zbihniew

Post by Iain
And one cannot just give "English" as an
example: In Scotland the E is pronounced as a southern English person
would say "gEt", my point being that vowels vary the world over and
that all that matters for communication is that they are used in a
consistent manner.

not only vowels, vide "schedule" (Br sh, US sk)
Also, I heard many people whose "s" tend to be "sh" and "ts" to be "tsh".
what way would be consistent? should anyone drop their own spelling for
other's? we would have to choose one pattern. it's almost as absurdal
and unreal as introducing new spelling :D

I was going to say that in Scotland where we pronounce things
particularly carefully, we tend to say "shedual", but sometimes
"schedule". I was actually just reminded of a line of dialogue in
Jurassic Park at the beginning in the caravan when the Scottish owener
of the park gets the two pronounciations confused in front of 2
Americans.

One spelling lead to more than one pronounciation, which is fine.
--
Iain

[Iain]

Post by zbihniew

Post by Iain
It is phonetic, it just has complex rules of pronounciation. You can
learn the spelling by thinking of the meaning, prefixes and suffixes
rather than merely the sound. That's the key to those who struggle
with spelling.

there are too many rules

Really? The rules of pronounciation can be summarised fairly quickly.

Each letter has it's own sound, except when certain combinations form.

Firstly, vowel combinations: ai, ea, oa, ee, oo, ie have sounds simply
because there are slighly more possible vowel sounds than there are
vowel letters, and anglo-saxon letters such as æ went out the window
1000 years ago.

Constonant combinations exist for a similar reason: ch, sh, cc and so
on.

Things which people think are rules aren't. There are no silent
letters by rule. The final B of bomb happens not to stand out even if
one makes an effort to pronounce it. Same with the W as the start of
writing, et cetera.

Just think of it as an extended alphebet.

--
Iain

[zbihniew]

Post by Iain

Post by zbihniew

Post by Iain
It is phonetic, it just has complex rules of pronounciation. You can
learn the spelling by thinking of the meaning, prefixes and suffixes
rather than merely the sound. That's the key to those who struggle
with spelling.

there are too many rules

Really? The rules of pronounciation can be summarised fairly quickly.
Each letter has it's own sound, except when certain combinations form.

"th" has two different sounds
"e" can be Latin "i", "e" or nought
"a" can be Latin "a", "e", "ei" and I guess some more
"th" can be either Anglo-Saxon eth or thorn
"p" is out of the question usually but it disappears in "psychology"
"n" can be Latin "n" or so-called "eng"
"o" can represent many weird things

Post by Iain
Firstly, vowel combinations: ai, ea, oa, ee, oo, ie have sounds simply
because there are slighly more possible vowel sounds than there are
vowel letters, and anglo-saxon letters such as æ went out the window
1000 years ago.

wouldn't diactrics help?

Post by Iain
Constonant combinations exist for a similar reason: ch, sh, cc and so

even single consonant can represent different phonems. for example "c"
sometimes is pronounced like "s" (cinema) and sometimes like "k" (cat)

Post by Iain
on.
Things which people think are rules aren't. There are no silent
letters by rule. The final B of bomb happens not to stand out even if
one makes an effort to pronounce it. Same with the W as the start of
writing, et cetera.

To me it's no effort to say "know" with "k" or "psychic" with "o".

[Iain]

Post by zbihniew

Post by Iain

Post by zbihniew

Post by Iain
It is phonetic, it just has complex rules of pronounciation. You can
learn the spelling by thinking of the meaning, prefixes and suffixes
rather than merely the sound. That's the key to those who struggle
with spelling.

there are too many rules

Really? The rules of pronounciation can be summarised fairly quickly.
Each letter has it's own sound, except when certain combinations form.

"th" has two different sounds
"e" can be Latin "i", "e" or nought
"a" can be Latin "a", "e", "ei" and I guess some more
"th" can be either Anglo-Saxon eth or thorn
"p" is out of the question usually but it disappears in "psychology"
"n" can be Latin "n" or so-called "eng"
"o" can represent many weird things

Post by Iain
Firstly, vowel combinations: ai, ea, oa, ee, oo, ie have sounds simply
because there are slighly more possible vowel sounds than there are
vowel letters, and anglo-saxon letters such as æ went out the window
1000 years ago.

wouldn't diactrics help?

Post by Iain
Constonant combinations exist for a similar reason: ch, sh, cc and so

even single consonant can represent different phonems. for example "c"
sometimes is pronounced like "s" (cinema) and sometimes like "k" (cat)

Post by Iain
on.
Things which people think are rules aren't. There are no silent
letters by rule. The final B of bomb happens not to stand out even if
one makes an effort to pronounce it. Same with the W as the start of
writing, et cetera.

To me it's no effort to say "know" with "k" or "psychic" with "o".

Say any of the following words quickly fifty times normally, but
pronouncing the capitalised letters.

Writing
Psychic
bomB

You will towards the end have either dropped, or feel the urge to drop
the letters considered silent. My point is that these letters are
inherently silent because of their position in the word, as so nobody
bothers trying.
--
Iain

[zbihniew]

Post by Iain
Say any of the following words quickly fifty times normally, but
pronouncing the capitalised letters.
Writing

I didn't mention a "wr~" word in my previous post because it really is a
problem although when I was a newbie at English language, I didn't know
"w" should be dropped and I used to pronounce it. I still meet people
who pronounce strange "wr".

Post by Iain
Psychic

That's no problem at all, many languages use "ps". There's even a "psi"
letter in the Greek alphabet. German "psychisch" or Polish "psychiczny"
is pronounced with "ps". I wonder how English language will deal with
real "sychology" if it comes one day ;)

Post by Iain
bomB

"b" tends to be unvoiced (similar to P) but I guess that's because of
general tendency of Polish speakers to unvoice consonants when they're a
last letter.

Post by Iain
You will towards the end have either dropped, or feel the urge to drop
the letters considered silent. My point is that these letters are
inherently silent because of their position in the word, as so nobody
bothers trying.

I think nobody bothers trying because they are said to remain silent and
wherefore would one try to speak strangely?

BTW, I've just realised "o" has an interesting non-phonetic usage in "one".

[-|-|-|-|-]

Post by zbihniew
there are too many rules and you won't be sure which one you are too
apply. you cannot distinct by mere spelling (eg. "read"). there are also
many crazy words like "unanimous" (how would one know that it's spelled
like "united", not like "unwillingly"?).
a propos, where could i find such rules?

ju: before a vowel, &n before a consonant. Not too difficult really.

Post by zbihniew
school-eschew - both of them have "sch" and it's pronounced in other way;
and why is "theatre" (or "theater" if you prefer US spelling) pronounced
with a thorn while it contains "the"

the sch in each is pronounced the same as far as I'm concerned.

[jonah thomas]

Post by Iain
It is phonetic, it just has complex rules of pronounciation. You can
learn the spelling by thinking of the meaning, prefixes and suffixes
rather than merely the sound. That's the key to those who struggle
with spelling.

You could say that about any system of spelling. In the worst case,
we'd have a different rule for every word. "It is phonetic, it just has
complex rules of pronunciation."

Post by Iain
Can anybody give me a non-phonetically spelled English word which
isn't obviously foreign? And one cannot just give "English" as an
example: In Scotland the E is pronounced as a southern English person
would say "gEt", my point being that vowels vary the world over and
that all that matters for communication is that they are used in a
consistent manner.

Phlegm. But then, most of our words are obviously foreign except the
occasional obvious anglo-saxonism. And if you accept that it's
phonetically spelled if there's anybody in the british isles who says it
something like that, then it will be hard to prove you wrong.

But english is not spelled very phonetically. It could be spelled much
more phonetically, and it should be, and will be.

[zbihniew]

Post by jonah thomas
Phlegm. But then, most of our words are obviously foreign except the
occasional obvious anglo-saxonism. And if you accept that it's
phonetically spelled if there's anybody in the british isles who says it
something like that, then it will be hard to prove you wrong.

I think he meant really foreign words like coup d'etat or names used in
English which come from other languages (cultures?). There's a
difference between them and these which got "assimilated" and which are
now circa 90% of English vocabulary.

Post by jonah thomas
But english is not spelled very phonetically. It could be spelled much
more phonetically, and it should be, and will be.

I doubt if it will. Hmmm... what about talking more ortographically? ;)

[A.B. Normal 65]

Post by jonah thomas

Post by Iain
It is phonetic, it just has complex rules of pronounciation. You can
learn the spelling by thinking of the meaning, prefixes and suffixes
rather than merely the sound. That's the key to those who struggle
with spelling.

You could say that about any system of spelling. In the worst case,
we'd have a different rule for every word. "It is phonetic, it just has
complex rules of pronunciation."

Post by Iain
Can anybody give me a non-phonetically spelled English word which
isn't obviously foreign? And one cannot just give "English" as an
example: In Scotland the E is pronounced as a southern English person
would say "gEt", my point being that vowels vary the world over and
that all that matters for communication is that they are used in a
consistent manner.

Phlegm. But then, most of our words are obviously foreign except the
occasional obvious anglo-saxonism. And if you accept that it's
phonetically spelled if there's anybody in the british isles who says it
something like that, then it will be hard to prove you wrong.
But english is not spelled very phonetically. It could be spelled much
more phonetically, and it should be, and will be.

The tiemz, thae ahr a-chaenjin'. :)

[dmitri mosier]

Post by Iain
Can anybody give me a non-phonetically spelled English word which
isn't obviously foreign?

Colonel?

[zbihniew]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Douglas Crockford]

Post by zbihniew

Post by dmitri mosier

Post by Iain
Can anybody give me a non-phonetically spelled English word which
isn't obviously foreign?

Colonel?

hehe... a quite nasty example

Right.

[A.B. Normal 65]

Post by Douglas Crockford

Post by zbihniew

Post by dmitri mosier

Post by Iain
Can anybody give me a non-phonetically spelled English word which
isn't obviously foreign?

Colonel?

hehe... a quite nasty example

Right.

Undoubtedly. English is ALWAYS phonetic.

(Undoutedlee. English iz AHLWAEZ fonetik.)